What if?
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I think its the posture. Kilmer held himself differently than Keaton did. Alot more "posed" and heroic. Keaton had a more intimidating look in the suit.
I don't think you can beat the '89 Batman suit for overall appearance. The design really made him look like a man-bat. Very animalistic and kinda scary.
Departing from the human torso formed armor as they did in Returns was just a mistake.
I disagree. While I like both suits, I prefer the Returns design.
P.S.: Hi Coco! Freakazoid here. Good to see another Freak on the board.
the suit throws me off. Likely burton would have kept the Returns-ish style with a few alterations.
Quote from: shadowbat69 on Thu, 17 Apr 2008, 17:24
I think its the posture. Kilmer held himself differently than Keaton did. Alot more "posed" and heroic. Keaton had a more intimidating look in the suit.
Not to mention by the time forever was made, the suit had gotten alot lighter. Which allowed for more poses. Personally, sans the nipples, I like the "panther" suit. And for those who feel this suit doesn't look like what Burton would have done, I agree, but lets also remember that Keaton could have been in Schmachers film aswell. Sometimes, I wish he would have. I think having Keaton onboard, he could have held some power over the film. Probably stopping some of the stupider parts from getting off the ground. I feel that once Keaton left, WB pretty much let Schmacher have free reign from the ground up.
Well, it has been said that the Panther cowl was being sculpted for Keaton, so I can only guess that the suit itself was being brought back to the more human look. Therefor, the suit for Keaton may have looked alot like the actual Panther we got to see Kilmer in in Forever.
Sans nipples. ;)
Quote from: Batman on Thu, 17 Apr 2008, 19:19
I disagree. While I like both suits, I prefer the Returns design.
P.S.: Hi Coco! Freakazoid here. Good to see another Freak on the board.
How dare you disagree with me! ;D
Hey! Batman (aka Freakazoid). 8)
If I remember correctly the dvd showed behind the scenes footage of Ringwood on forever, he seemed pretty involved.
Keaton being the star, well, your correct he couldn't have saved the film. I'm talking about WB wanting to keep him happy, at an early stage he could have "swayed" the film away from some of the campier moments. But alas, he did make the better choice.
I can't see Keaton saying "Chicks love the car".
Quote from: raleagh on Fri, 18 Apr 2008, 13:09
I can't see Keaton saying "Chicks love the car".
I dont think Keaton would have said it.lol
If Joel thought Val was difficult on the set, can you imagine him with Keaton and wanting him to deliver that kind of performance?
Cant see Keaton flashing his arse either! ::)
Well Keaton did say " Eat floor, High fiber" ;)
yea he was involved. But remember, the Director will impose his ideasfor what he wants and the designer will run with that, making suggestions. So, if Burton had stayed, I'm positive we would not have seen this suit.
I like Batman Forever. I prefer it over Batman Begins.
It would have been nice to see Burton's trilogy completed, though.
IMO, in some shots Batman almost looks like it could be Keaton underneath the mask.
The scene inside the safe, as the acid starts pouring from the chambers, for example.
Just for fun, I made a Photoshopped image of Keaton Batman wearing the Prototype Suit from the finale of Batman Forever.
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that looks great
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Keaton looks better in that than Kilmer did, although the cowl does look better without the pointy bits along the cheeks.
QuoteI respect him ALOT aswell, he stood by principle and turned down alot of money. I was just saying, that if he had stayed, the film possibly could have been better. With Keaton being the star and voicing his opinion, WB may have pulled joels power in some.
While I would have loved if Keaton stuck around for Batman Forever, I have a feeling he'd really have a diminished role in the decision-making conversations. This is mostly speculation, but if WB really were interested in keeping him, they would have paid him an obscene amount of money.
Keaton mentioned in Les Daniel's book how he did not wish to see a character he and Tim develop over two films to turn into a cartoon character--and I respect and appreciate his point of view. I'm not sure very much would have kept him at the table with Joel Schumacher's take on the franchise on the table.
Very true. Welcome to the site Gregg.
Thank you, releagh. Saw you post at BOF and signed up. :)
Quote from: greggbray on Sun, 20 Apr 2008, 02:50
QuoteI respect him ALOT aswell, he stood by principle and turned down alot of money. I was just saying, that if he had stayed, the film possibly could have been better. With Keaton being the star and voicing his opinion, WB may have pulled joels power in some.
While I would have loved if Keaton stuck around for Batman Forever, I have a feeling he'd really have a diminished role in the decision-making conversations. This is mostly speculation, but if WB really were interested in keeping him, they would have paid him an obscene amount of money.
Keaton mentioned in Les Daniel's book how he did not wish to see a character he and Tim develop over two films to turn into a cartoon character--and I respect and appreciate his point of view. I'm not sure very much would have kept him at the table with Joel Schumacher's take on the franchise on the table.
But they DID offer him an obscene amount of money... Reported in 1994 as being as high as 20 million!
He turned them down. My point being that if he would have taken the offer, WB would have wanted to keep him happy. After Keaton bolted, WB probably figured they were at Sqaure one again without him, so the let Joel "reinvent" the series. I don't know if WB would have let him wander as far from the previous films with Keaton attached.
Quote from: ScissorPuppy on Sun, 20 Apr 2008, 04:59
But they DID offer him an obscene amount of money... Reported in 1994 as being as high as 20 million!
Believe it or not, it was higher. $35 million. It was the highest single salary to be paid to an actor at the time. Just in terms of one paycheck, without hesitation. Keaton could have even milked them for more, probably.
"It was like they were saying 'Here's $35 million in exchange for your soul.'" Said Keaton in his "Biography" episode. The man is integrity incarnate.
This article
http://www.batmanmovieonline.com/articles.php?showarticle=31
gives a great insight in the mind and history of Michael Keaton.
It is a bit of a read, but good nonetheless.
You can't break the Keaton.
Can you imagine thouhg, Carrey acting the fool like he did in that movie and Keaton just glaring at him with those eyes? lol
Wow.
Well, I'm glad he stuck to his principles, but yeah, Scissor Puppy, I can certainly see your point. Had Keaton remained, perhaps BF would have been a far better film.
Having said that, I'm still not sure there would be much synergy between Keaton and Schumacher, and aside from seeing Keaton in the costume one last time, it probably would have been a bit of a mess.
BTW Greg check your PMs... :)
I would have liked Batman Forever much more if Michael Keaton was Batman again. And I did think that Val Kilmer was a good Batman. but Michael deserved to come back.
Yeah, I remember reading in a few magazines back in 1993/1994 Keaton being offered a very generous amount of coin to stick around for Schumacher's first effort with the Batman franchise, but ultimately we all know what happened with that.
Personally, I applaud Keaton for standing by his principals, in not accepting a hefty payday to don the Batsuit one more time. Of course it would have been great to see him back, which would have added a little bit more continuity (other than Gough's re-appearance of course), however I believe Kilmer was a better fit for the film Schumacher wanted to make.
Oh, and glad to meet everyone's acquaintance of course. :D ;D
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That's an awesome pic, it makes me sad now cause it reminds me that i'll never get to see one of my dreams that being Keaton as Batman one more time :( ???.
I wish Keaton and Burton had doen Forever.
KEATON WAS PERFECT FOR THE FEEL AND TONE OF THE BURTON FILMS, HE WOULDNT FIT IN JOELS.
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I think keaton would have been awkward in schumachers movies. Out of place.
Nice work, Redskull! 8)
Awesome pic Redskull. ;)
QuoteI think keaton would have been awkward in schumachers movies. Out of place
If that isn't the understatement of the century.
I like that manip, I dont really feel thats how he would look in that cowl though.
also keaton showing off his bat butt and taking chase to the circus just doesnt seem like the bruce wayne in 89 and returns.
If I had a choice I would choose for keaton to be in it, but still it would have been weird...
"I'll get drive threw"
or
Keaton being trapped in that acid bathe or fighting the silly two face and Riddler, would have been so odd...
and keaton saying "its the car right? chicks love the car!"
lol
and just him being in that silly pink neon gotham would have been way off as well.
Well that's prob why Michael Keaton turned it down. But im sure if he had done it with Tim Burton it would have been great.
Quote from: Sandman on Mon, 22 Sep 2008, 05:29
Well that's prob why Michael Keaton turned it down. But im sure if he had done it with Tim Burton it would have been great.
amen
I was thinking, a good analogy is Pat Hingle, watch him in 89 and returns and then compare that too forever and especially "shudder" b&r.
He actually seems different and to a certain perspective so does Alfred. I think that same kind of weirdness would be with keaton.
YOu gotta admit Gough was good as Alfred all through all 4 films.
I agree. Michael Gough was constantly giving a good performance.
Yep. He was best in the Burton films, though.
I've probably said it somewhere else, but I'm glad Keaton didn't do any more films outside the Burton films. I would have loved to see him, but it just wouldn't have worked in the Schumacher nonsense. He kept his pride.
Yes he did keep his pride but only having two Burton/Keaton films isn't fair >:(. But hey there's still time for a third movie.
Quote from: Sandman on Mon, 29 Sep 2008, 08:48
But hey there's still time for a third movie.
Sadly, I'm pretty sure that time is over. We must cherish the two that we have.
Unless, it's an animated film.
By the way, I just found the PC Intro of the Batman Forever video game on YouTube.
I haven't seen it before.
http://www.youtube.com/v/UfqZ7N4bAEg&hl=en&fs=1
Notice the distinctive Michael Keaton eyebrows when you see Bruce Wayne looking at the computer screen in close-up while being in the pod on his way to the Batcave.
Also, the music is based on Danny Elfman's.
Neat!
and to think that batman forever danny theme from the video game is better then eliot goldenthals campy batman theme for the movie...
Goldenthals theme and score are one of the best things about BF, and that game looked pretty lame to me haha!
Quote from: DarkVengeance on Sat, 4 Oct 2008, 00:27
Goldenthals theme and score are one of the best things about BF, and that game looked pretty lame to me haha!
ugh i hated his theme, absolutely hated it!
well I feel it fit the films tone much better than if they had used Elfmans theme and score, Goldenthals was fun, zany and very over the top, fitting in perfect with Batman Forever's tone and feel, I love it for what it is!
I too am a fan of Goldenthal's Batman Forever and Batman and Robin scores.
While both get repetitive after a while, there are some really great pieces. I for one like his Batman Theme (from Forever), especially with the slow and quiet beginning when the movie opens with the WB logo morphing into the Batman symbol.
Yeah I like the Batman forever score.
Dont get me wrong, nothing touches Elfmans, but Forever is good and was right for that movie.
ugh no sorry guys, disagree 100% with you on this. Its way to over the top, crazy and way to repetitive. The villain theme is garbage. Its as if they didn't even care. The guys just ripped the same villain them from BF and put it in BandR, what lazy bastards! Goldenthal and that writer, whatever his name is, gets no respect from me! I could right a better theme for the villains then that! Wtf was that?!
Skull all I know is that if they had actually used Elfman's theme for BF it would not have fit one bit, go back and re-watch the original first teaser for BF with Elfmans theme for 89 in the background, it just dosent fit that well with the tone of the film. Elfman's themes for batman were always very gothic, the only thing in BF that's gothic is some of the city's architecture and design and thats about it, it seems to me my friend you just HATE BF in every way possible regardless.
What I hated about Forever was the batcave being found by the villains, then blown up. I couldn't stand it. I would cry if they did that to either of the Burton batcaves. They should remain absolutely secret and the villains should never be written to find it, and blow the thing up. Hated it.
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 5 Oct 2008, 04:44
What I hated about Forever was the batcave being found by the villains, then blown up. I couldn't stand it. I would cry if they did that to either of the Burton batcaves. They should remain absolutely secret and the villains should never be written to find it, and blow the thing up. Hated it.
Then you definitely would not have liked Sam Hamm's original script for Returns.
***SPOILERS*** He had the Penguin and Catwoman break into Wayne Manor and the Batcave to look for treasure.
Quote from: batass4880 on Sun, 5 Oct 2008, 04:50
Quote from: The Dark Knight on Sun, 5 Oct 2008, 04:44
What I hated about Forever was the batcave being found by the villains, then blown up. I couldn't stand it. I would cry if they did that to either of the Burton batcaves. They should remain absolutely secret and the villains should never be written to find it, and blow the thing up. Hated it.
Then you definitely would not have liked Sam Hamm's original script for Returns.
***SPOILERS*** He had the Penguin and Catwoman break into Wayne Manor and the Batcave to look for treasure.
:-\
Thank god that didn't happen.
I second that one, that would've ruined the film for me!