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This show really went downhill in its later seasons but the pilot movie and a few of the first season episodes were quite good.

In fact, I was just thinking the other day about how the pilot movie was everything a Superman relaunch should be:

-- Clark tries to learn his way around Metropolis without anyone figuring out his secret. Little to no time spent in Smallville since the Reeve movies already covered that territory. 

-- Lex Luthor, the evil (yet charming) CEO is introduced

-- Great chemistry between Lois & Clark

-- The investigative reporters actually do some...investigating and reporting.

-- Superman rescues Lois from an experimental shuttle. He then helps it land in a baseball field...oh wait--wrong Superman. But the shuttle part did happen.

Quote from: phantom stranger on Mon,  5 Jul  2010, 05:07
-- Superman rescues Lois from an experimental shuttle. He then helps it land in a baseball field...oh wait--wrong Superman. But the shuttle part did happen.

I hated that scene. It just makes Superman look like a loser. He rips off the wings and they obviously plummet down and smash up God knows what. He then leaves the fuselage on the field, and flies off leaving it there. Not to mention rolling the Daily Planet globe onto that car later on in the film. Geez.

I liked the series back in the day...

...I was young, it was new and filled my need for a Superman fix.

Later seasons did go down hill...especially the whole wedding stuff.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Mon,  5 Jul  2010, 06:15

Not to mention rolling the Daily Planet globe onto that car later on in the film. Geez.

He used his x-ray vision to look inside the car. Once he saw the driver had car insurance, he proceeded to drop the globe on it.

Quote from: phantom stranger on Mon,  5 Jul  2010, 17:28
He used his x-ray vision to look inside the car. Once he saw the driver had car insurance, he proceeded to drop the globe on it.

Maybe Superman was being the typical finger-wagging boy-scout and the reason he allowed the globe to drop on the car was because the driver didn't have car insurance.

I wonder if Batman (in TDK) knew if cars had insurance before he blew them up?

QuoteI wonder if Batman (in TDK) knew if cars had insurance before he blew them up?

Or that there were unsupervised children sitting in them?

Speaking of cars, does anyone else remember the season 3 episode of Lois & Clark where the Burton Batmobile makes an appearance?

(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2FLois_And_Clark3x06Dont_Tug_On_Su-1.jpg&hash=00ac865f6c6820a537ec6b32cf52f87843643c6b)
(https://www.batman-online.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi396.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fpp42%2Fsilver-nemsis%2FLois_And_Clark3x06Dont_Tug_On_Super.jpg&hash=c13180343aa5b17e50c858bac8a858491ebd666a)

What's Commander Riker doing with the Batmobile?  ???

Hey, cool find!   ;)

If you ask me, L&C takes way too much crap. The basic conceit that you have to make is that it's played as a romantic comedy peppered with some action; that approach either works for you or it doesn't. If it doesn't, there's always that Singerman sequel.

Oh wait.

But anyway. L&C. Very good writing, actually. Very underrated. The characters were consistently written across the seasons for the most part. Lois was written as an intuitive, go-from-the-get investigative reporter while Clark tended to be more black & white, more rational in his thinking. It made sense for Perry to team people like them up. You've got Lois' experience and Clark's energy, Lois' emotions and Clark's objectivity, etc. I've seen a lot of less convincing reasons to pair them together (professionally speaking).

Lex actually felt like someone Lois could fall for. I dug that. Whatever she might've said to the contrary, Lois wanted to be loved and she felt like she got that from Lex.

As for Lex, he was written as kind of a hedonist. Not in the 70's rock star way but more in that his personal desires outweighed everything else, even somoene else's life. Supervillains are always written as cherishing their battles with the hero. It's a cliche at this point. But with this version of Lex, it actually holds water. If he had a chance to pull the trigger, he would and he'd enjoy it... but he would also genuinely miss his duels with Superman.

Overall, I enjoy the show. It got way melodramatic in the third season but the lead characters had believable, coherent and logical motivations. It's a crying shame that the show never got a proper finale.

Actually managed to watch the entire run (thank you netflix!) recently.

You're correct.  It's Superman as a ro-co, with some action throughout.  Having said that, the first two seasons, and even the first half of the third season (including the terrific 'Never on a Sunday' episode) were actually pretty solid for the kind of approach they employed.  The end of the third season (a mult-episode arc with Lois as an amnesiac and Clark married to a frog-eating clone...ugh...) should probably be forgotten.

Season 4?  Not much of an improvement.  The wedding episode in particular was a disaster.  "I don't know Jimmy, I just wanted to walk west..."

Having said that, the first 2 and a half seasons are great fun. 

Part of enjoying the live action Superman's variations is, for me, accepting that there are different genres the core story is being filtered through.  Action serial?  The Atom. Saturday morning cheese?  Superboy.  Ro-co?  Lois and Clark.  Teen Prime Time Soap?  Smallville. Action epic? Superman I and II.  Complete misfire? Superman Returns.  ;)

Before he was Superman...


This next one I remember from when I was a kid. It was the same year he was cast as Superman. Starts at the 0:14 second mark.


He appears briefly at the 0:16 second mark in this one.


He's still my favourite Clark Kent and my second favourite Superman after Reeve.

Last month marked the 20th anniversary of the last episode of this series. How time flies.

Dean Cain recently recreated a memorable scene from the Injustice comics:


He and Teri Hatcher have been making a lot of public appearances together lately.


And Cain has been expressing a desire to make some kind of L&C reunion, either in the form of a TV movie or miniseries. I doubt it'll happen, but I'd love to see what a middle-aged Lois and Clark would be like.

L&C will always have a special place in my heart. I'd love to see some kind of reunion. And in today's world of micro-programming, I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand. L&C still has a fanbase and odds are they'd flock to a reunion.

Plus, WB seems less uptight these days when it comes to multiple brandings of one character going (eg, Superman in the DCEU and Superman in Supergirl, etc) simultaneously.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Sun,  6 Mar  2016, 13:34
He's still my favourite Clark Kent and my second favourite Superman after Reeve.

Reeve, Cain and Cavill are the live action Superman kings as far as I am concerned.

And when it comes to Lois, I'm all about Hatcher, Durance and Adams.

I liked Hatcher and still like her a lot. She has the perfect blend of sexiness and loveable fun charm.....like this.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/KDNJRLGshYAUM/giphy.gif)

She's someone you'd crawl through broken glass for. Hatcher and Cain made the show what it is, and it's a show that should never be forgotten. Cain gets way too much crap thrown his way in my opinion. He's a good conservative man who has no problem being a Superman ambassador. In fact, I'd like to re-watch the series again. It's been a while.

As I said in another thread, I haven't seen Lois and Clark for twenty years, but I realise that Dean Cain's portrayal was more refreshing than I ever gave him credit for, particularly for his no-nonsense, hardhitting demeanor as Clark Kent - investigative Daily Planet reporter. That aspect appears to go unappreciated in an era where people are obsessed on trivial things about Superman e.g. Superman smiling or not.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon,  3 Jul  2017, 22:23
L&C will always have a special place in my heart. I'd love to see some kind of reunion. And in today's world of micro-programming, I don't think it should be dismissed out of hand. L&C still has a fanbase and odds are they'd flock to a reunion.

Plus, WB seems less uptight these days when it comes to multiple brandings of one character going (eg, Superman in the DCEU and Superman in Supergirl, etc) simultaneously.

Wouldn't that be swell? I always hoped they'd bring Twin Peaks back to resolve the season 2 cliffhanger, but I never thought they'd actually do it. And yet here we are in 2017, and they've finally brought TP back (and I'm loving it). It'd be great if WB could revive Lois & Clark too, even if it was only for a miniseries. An animated film would be acceptable, but I'd prefer it was live action. Cain and Hatcher are both in great shape, so I see no reason why either of them couldn't reprise their roles. I honestly don't know anyone who likes the Supergirl TV show, yet I understand Superman's appearing in that on a regular basis now. How about bringing back an older version of Superman that many of us still love? Lois & Clark was averaging over 15 million viewers during its third season. I'm sure a lot of those fans would be curious enough to tune in for a revival. Just don't leave it too long.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Tue,  4 Jul  2017, 09:25Reeve, Cain and Cavill are the live action Superman kings as far as I am concerned.

And when it comes to Lois, I'm all about Hatcher, Durance and Adams.

I liked Hatcher and still like her a lot. She has the perfect blend of sexiness and loveable fun charm.....like this.

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/KDNJRLGshYAUM/giphy.gif)

She's someone you'd crawl through broken glass for. Hatcher and Cain made the show what it is, and it's a show that should never be forgotten. Cain gets way too much crap thrown his way in my opinion. He's a good conservative man who has no problem being a Superman ambassador. In fact, I'd like to re-watch the series again. It's been a while.

I'm currently re-watching it. I love this show. I love the stylish nineties look the sets and costumes have, I love the music by Jay Gruska, I love the faultless casting, the scripts (in the early seasons) and all the nods to the comic books. It may not have the impressive level of FX wizardry that other Superman movies and TV shows have benefited from, but it's got superb characterisation, charm and tremendous heart. Every time I watch it I feel something: sometimes amusement, other times sadness, but always emotional engagement. It's tied with Batman '66 as my favourite live action DC series. Both programs were a big part of my childhood, and I think they're still amazing in 2017.

One thing I notice about Cain is that he seems a tad uncomfortable as Superman in the early episodes. Watch what he does with his hands, and you'll see him shift them around and fidget like he's not sure where to put them. I think the underwhelming special effects in some of the earlier episodes didn't help his confidence much. But his Superman definitely improves as the show goes along. As he matures into the role, you see his features become less boyish and his muscles start to fill out the suit more. He was in excellent shape in season 1 (he was a former NFL player, after all), but by seasons 3 and 4 he was really jacked. Which was just as well, since his costume didn't have any fake padding or sculpted muscles like George Reeves' had.


You can see his confidence growing too. He develops his signature pose where he folds his arms and smirks/glowers at his enemies. And his super feats become more impressive thanks to the improved special effects. By the end of the series, he'd become a really good Superman. Not quite the best, perhaps, but a very good one.

As Clark Kent though, he had it nailed from the moment he stepped off that bus in the pilot episode. His Clark displays the ideal balance of humorous mild mannered reporter, vulnerable boy-next-door from Kansas, and dispossessed alien searching for the truth about his lineage. He's the kind of guy you'd like to hang out with. You root for him and want him to win.

As Superman I'd rate Cain a 3½/5. As Clark Kent I'd rate him 5/5. Overall rating: 4/5. He's tied with Reeve as my personal favourite.

Judging from forum discussions, a lot of people seem to forget just how many comic villains Cain's Superman encountered over the years: Lex Luthor, Intergang, Dr Light, the Prankster, Metallo, Emmett Vale, Dr Gretchen Kelly, Baron Sunday, Dr Emil Hamilton, Mr Mxyzptlk and two different versions of Toyman. He also fought variations of Bizarro, General Zod, Shadow Thief and both Morgan and Vincent Edge, though they all had their names changed. I'll have to revive the L&C comic analysis thread at some point so we can go into that subject in more depth.

Cain also seems like a genuinely nice guy. There's a ton of videos of him attending conventions on YouTube, and he's brilliant with his fans. He also puts a lot of time into supporting the men and women serving in the armed forces. And of course he's a great supporter of DC in general.


It's sad how dismissive some people are of his performance (L&C currently has a 6.8 rating on the IMDb :(). Ever since Chris Reeve passed away, Cain has been the elder statesman of Supermen. And I think he's lived up that role every bit as well as Adam West did as the elder statesman of Batmen.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47Lois & Clark was averaging over 15 million viewers during its third season. I'm sure a lot of those fans would be curious enough to tune in for a revival. Just don't leave it too long.

People tend to forget that but it's true. L&C was never a top 20 show. Tastes ran differently back in those days, there's no denying it. The show struggled to find an audience.

But still, L&C usually punched its weight and then some.

Another canard is the wedding. Getting married did not wreck that show. NOT getting married is what did it; everything else was aftermath.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47I'm currently re-watching it. I love this show.

I just finished my rewatch yesterday. :D

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47I love the stylish nineties look the sets and costumes have,

Ditto. For me, it's all about the visuals and aesthetics of the first season. To this day, I wonder where Levine would've gone with the show. Season 2-4 are great, don't get me wrong. But that first season really locked into something. Ejecting DLJ from the equation may have (ultimately) resulted in a more popular show. But something was lost in the process.

I also cherish that first season Daily Planet, which looks the way I'd imagine a news room really would look.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47I love the music by Jay Gruska,

It took a while to realize that the "hero" theme of that movie was also the theme for Lois and Clark, separately and together. It's very clever composing on a musical level and reinforces the show's theme of Superman as the summation of Clark Kent's ability and Lois Lane's vision. She defined so much of how Clark constructed Superman without even realizing it.

In fact, come to that it's criminal how little recognition L&C gets for being a pioneer. We wouldn't have the MOS concept of Lois literally helping Clark create Superman if L&C hadn't shown Lois indirectly helping Clark create Superman. Smallville took a similar tack... and with similar (positive) results, if you ask me.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47It may not have the impressive level of FX wizardry that other Superman movies and TV shows have benefited from

One of my lasting regrets with the show is the relative dearth of wire effects. The show seemed to err on the side of using green screen. A very primitive, very 90's, relatively low budget green screen. The results looked sketchy even back in 1993 and definitely haven't held up over the years.

But then, this was never an effects-driven show, now was it?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47but it's got superb characterisation,

Again, true. My usual challenge to people is to go back and watch the pilot. And then recognize that literally everything said about the characters in the pilot held true all through the run of the show.

A good example is Lois having dessert with Lex. She tells him she never eats dessert. Later, in Lucky Leon from season 2, Lois casually remarks that she doesn't usually eat dessert. There's a borderline absurd attention to detail through every single one of those shows, you know?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47One thing I notice about Cain is that he seems a tad uncomfortable as Superman in the early episodes.

I rather like that, actually. I mean, don't get me wrong. Intellectually, I realize that Cain was struggling to fit himself into the character. That was easier for him to do when he played Clark. But he hadn't really cracked Superman. That's the most likely real world explanation.

But oddly enough, it actually resonates with the character's arc over the course of the show. This is a guy who always regarded himself as Clark. And by becoming Superman, he's gone public and turned into a celebrity... which isn't something he necessarily accounted for and definitely wasn't comfortable with at first.

But then, by the fourth season he's doing public appearances, celebrity golf tournaments and that sort of thing. He has become more secure in his own skin (or cape) over the run of the show and that plays for me.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47As Superman I'd rate Cain a 3½/5. As Clark Kent I'd rate him 5/5. Overall rating: 4/5. He's tied with Reeve as my personal favourite.

I'm a big Superman nerd. Obviously. So to me, all the actors are apples and oranges.

My favorite Superman is a never-ending battle between Tom Welling and Henry Cavill. I love Welling's character arc in Smallville but Cavill looks the part in so many ways, on so many levels... ugh, it's like pulling teeth trying to figure it out.

Cain deserves a ton of respect, not least because he was the first successor as Superman following Reeve. He had one hell of a tough act to follow and I think it says a lot about him that he ultimately settled on very different portrayals of Clark and Superman than Reeve did.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47Cain also seems like a genuinely nice guy. There's a ton of videos of him attending conventions on YouTube, and he's brilliant with his fans. He also puts a lot of time into supporting the men and women serving in the armed forces. And of course he's a great supporter of DC in general.

My girlfriend met him at a con a few months back. And I'm here to say that Cain is everything you heard about. He's an incredibly cool guy on a personal level.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47It's sad how dismissive some people are of his performance (L&C currently has a 6.8 rating on the IMDb :(). Ever since Chris Reeve passed away, Cain has been the elder statesman of Supermen. And I think he's lived up that role every bit as well as Adam West did as the elder statesman of Batmen.

I put a lot of Cain's naysaying down to Chris Reeve Syndrome. The time came when somehow Reeve ascended to this lofty pinnacle that I think even he would've shunned. Or at least been uncomfortable with.

I put some of that down to L&C being a ligher and slightly cheesy type of show as compared to the (at times) more grounded Reeve films. Either way, it's unfair to everybody involved.

Reeve gave Clark a distinct secret identity with the bumbling fool routine. But I just don't like it. Superman is very much a wish fulfilment, fantasy type of character. I mean, he can do anything. He can fly, he's strong and shoots heat vision from his eyes. That's all cool stuff. But when he's not in the suit he's laughed at and thought of as an idiot? Nah man. That doesn't gel with my wish fulfilment fantasy. Cavill's Clark gets put down by Perry but stands by his convictions and isn't slipping and sliding around the place. Cavill's Clark doesn't let something go. He pursues it and stands his ground if pushed, but if he's not pushed, he's a rather chill guy. Cain's Clark is probably the coolest of the lot, and he's definitely not bumbling around. He's probably the most likeable too. Same goes for the DCAU Clark Kent. They're all just doing their job, fitting into the workplace but also excelling at the same time.

Just my two cents.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  5 Jul  2017, 18:47
Cain and Hatcher are both in great shape, so I see no reason why either of them couldn't reprise their roles.

It seems both of them are up for it. I was thinking they could adapt the Rebirth concept of Lois and Clark as parents to young Jon. The last episode of season four was the pair discovering they are unable to have children...and we all know the loophole Rebirth provided to get around that problem. I think this dynamic would be fitting for a fast forward type of season, to see what they're both up to these days. What has changed and what has stayed the same. It would be pretty interesting. Both Cain and Hatcher still look good and the charisma hasn't gone away. Why not?

And here's a side note. I remember sending Dean Cain a letter as a child, and not long after he replied with a signed Lois and Clark postcard. I think I still have it too. I'll have a dig around and see if I can scan it.

It feels like just yesterday we were celebrating the 20th anniversary of this show, and later this year we'll be marking the 25th. I hope we'll have some more in-depth episode specific discussions when the time comes. But for now, here's a rare clip I stumbled across on YouTube. It's Cain making a brief appearance in character as Clark on the British TV show Noel's House Party back in 1994. From 4:00-5:25.

Zack Snyder recently shared a picture of Henry Cavill screen-testing in one of the old L&C suits.


Cain has confirmed it's one of his on Twitter.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Tue,  8 May  2018, 23:06
Zack Snyder recently shared a picture of Henry Cavill screen-testing in one of the old L&C suits.

(https://static3.srcdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Zack-Snyders-Photo-That-Got-Cavill-Henry-Cast-as-Superman.jpg?q=50&w=750&h=913&fit=crop)

Cain has confirmed it's one of his on Twitter.

(https://s9.postimg.cc/8yjszi5sf/cain_tweet.png)

I read somewhere that what Cavill tried on was a replica of Reeve's outfit, not an original. Which makes sense since the original was tailored for Reeve's exact specs which Cavill is unlikely to match. As an example, Reeve and Howard Stern are basically the same height. But the suit fit Reeve perfectly while Stern couldn't get it much past his shoulders.

A Cain outfit? Not unless somebody swapped out the symbol (and why would they do that??). I don't think that the L&C symbol at all.

Frankly, that suit doesn't look like a Reeve or Cain original. Maybe Snyder was being vague or inaccurate as short hand to wish a friend a happy birthday rather than offer detailed explanations about things.

I suppose it could be a composite assembled from different suits. The colour and texture of the bodysuit are closer to Cain's costume than Reeve's, as is the length of the cape. Cain was also the closest in height and build to Cavill, making his outfit the logical choice if they needed to recycle one.


However the s-shield looks more like Reeve's.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Tue,  8 May  2018, 23:17
A Cain outfit? Not unless somebody swapped out the symbol (and why would they do that??).

The oversized 's' is the most common online criticism I've seen of Cain's costume, with many fans saying they prefer the smaller 's' from the pilot episode.


The pilot also features a version of the costume without a chest emblem. Could this be the one used in Cavil's screen test, only with a more recent s-shield attached?


It would be cheaper to modify an existing suit than create a new one from scratch. Christian Bale wore a specially modified version of one of the Schumacher batsuits for his Batman screen test.


It's possible Snyder had one whipped up from scratch, but I would've expected him to go for a sculpted rubber suit than a spandex outfit like this. But who can say? I'd be interested to find out where this suit came from, even if it is an original.

Teri Hatcher recently attended Comic-Con to film interviews for her Van Therapy YouTube series. And which comic book character did she go dressed as?

Lois Lane.

Some big-brained types are suggesting this was guerrilla campaigning for some kind of L&C revival.

I... don't know.

I don't know either. I think L&C was of its time. A revival would be polluted with current day nonsense ala Supergirl.

But Teri does look great in that outfit.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Wed, 25 Jul  2018, 05:26
I don't know either. I think L&C was of its time. A revival would be polluted with current day nonsense ala Supergirl.

I've always hated the comparisons between Supergirl and Lois & Clark. I consider it an insult to L&C. But yeah, you're right about L&C being of its time. It hails from an age when Warner Bros boasted a line-up of hit shows like Batman: TAS, Friends and Babylon 5. I don't think WB could replicate their nineties TV glory in 2018. If they did L&C now, it'd be another generic CW series like all the rest. The original show's charm would be suffocated beneath heavy-handed 21st century politics. It just wouldn't be the same.

What I would like to see though is a comic book continuation similar to Smallville Season 11, Batman '66 and Wonder Woman '77. In fact I'd like to see a whole imprint of nineties-influenced DC Comics titles that would include continuations of Burton's Batman films, the John Wesley Shipp Flash series and L&C, all set within the same universe. Alternatively, it'd be great if Cain and Hatcher could voice different versions of their characters in a DC animated movie. I'm not sure if Hatcher would be up for it, but I'm sure Cain would. I've always thought his Superman looked a bit like the Alex Ross version, so maybe he could voice him in a Kingdom Come adaptation.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 26 Jul  2018, 17:44
I've always hated the comparisons between Supergirl and Lois & Clark. I consider it an insult to L&C.

Agree, and I have not compared them. L&C is a MUCH better show. I hand on heart have not watched a single episode of Supergirl. I have only watched one YT clip of the underwhelming lead actress choosing her costume. I wasn't impressed. The blatant political nature of the show (and persuasion) is obvious from what I read though. Seriously, get it the F*** outta there. Just give the masses a show to enjoy without the bull**** preaching. I yearn for the simplistic fun days of L&C. 

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 26 Jul  2018, 17:44
But yeah, you're right about L&C being of its time. It hails from an age when Warner Bros boasted a line-up of hit shows like Batman: TAS, Friends and Babylon 5. I don't think WB could replicate their nineties TV glory in 2018. If they did L&C now, it'd be another generic CW series like all the rest. The original show's charm would be suffocated beneath heavy-handed 21st century politics. It just wouldn't be the same.

Precisely. L&C has a dated, cheesy feel IN A GOOD WAY that simply cannot be replicated now.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Thu, 26 Jul  2018, 17:44
I'm not sure if Hatcher would be up for it, but I'm sure Cain would.

I don't know...she might be. She's met Dean in recent times and attends conventions. I keep an eye on her Instagram page from time to time for uh, research purposes. I don't have a problem with Teri.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 27 Jul  2018, 01:20Agree, and I have not compared them. L&C is a MUCH better show. I hand on heart have not watched a single episode of Supergirl. I have only watched one YT clip of the underwhelming lead actress choosing her costume. I wasn't impressed. The blatant political nature of the show (and persuasion) is obvious from what I read though. Seriously, get it the F*** outta there. Just give the masses a show to enjoy without the bull**** preaching. I yearn for the simplistic fun days of L&C. 

I suspect most of the people who compare the two shows are folks who never actually watched Lois & Clark, but are vaguely aware it had a tongue-in-cheek tone. Sadly ours is one of the few sites that gives the series the respect it deserves.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 27 Jul  2018, 01:20Precisely. L&C has a dated, cheesy feel IN A GOOD WAY that simply cannot be replicated now.

That's a good point. Being dated can be a wonderful thing if the product in question encapsulates the best qualities of the era in which it was created. And arguably Lois & Clark did. It's the product of a more innocent age, before the entertainment industry became bogged down in identity politics.

Quote from: The Dark Knight on Fri, 27 Jul  2018, 01:20I don't know...she might be. She's met Dean in recent times and attends conventions. I keep an eye on her Instagram page from time to time for uh, research purposes. I don't have a problem with Teri.

I've lost track of Hatcher since Desperate Housewives ended, so I'm not really sure what she's been up to lately. But it would be fantastic if she could reprise the role in some form or other. She brought the perfect balance of pluckiness, humour, strength, vulnerability and charm to the part. To me, she'll always be the definitive Lois.

I started re-watching this show earlier in the week (the perfect antidote to lockdown blues), and I spotted a Batman Returns connection I'd never noticed before. It's in the second episode of season one, 'Strange Visitor (From Another Planet)'. At one point Jimmy Olsen refers to Cat Grant as "the Cat woman":

Quote"Hey, CK, it's all over the newsroom. You and the Cat-woman. I didn't think anybody could come up with something as juicy as yesterday's raid, but you've done it."

The incident Jimmy is referring to here occurs earlier in the episode, when Clark visits Cat's apartment. When Cat rummages through her bedroom closet, she takes out a dress with a familiar dry-cleaning logo on the hanger. It reads "dress up with professional drycleaning" and bears an image of two penguins, one of which is wearing a top hat and tuxedo.


Could this be a nod to DeVito's Penguin, or is it merely a coincidence? Well it's no coincidence, since this is the same dry-cleaning logo that was hanging in Selina Kyle's bedroom closet in Batman Returns.


Evidently this particular dry-cleaning service is favoured by Cat-women. This also adds fuel to my theory that the nineties Batman movies and Superman TV show take place in the same universe. I'm going to go ahead and add this to the IMDb connections page.

Wow, eagle-eyed catch there. If I'd thought about it at all, I would've assumed that movies and shows use the same basic props. Like how characters in media always read the same newspaper prop. But the penguin thing makes me wonder. Weird. Good catch tho.

Yeah, I think the top hat and tuxedo are a little too specific for it to be a coincidence. Unless of course there's a real dry-cleaning service that uses that logo. We'll have to keep an eye out for it in other Warner Bros movies and TV shows from that era.

Fans of Lois & Clark might enjoy this recent video chat between Hatcher and Cain. I haven't watched it all myself yet, but it sounds like they cover some interesting topics.

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed, 10 Jun  2020, 16:54
I started re-watching this show earlier in the week (the perfect antidote to lockdown blues), and I spotted a Batman Returns connection I'd never noticed before. It's in the second episode of season one, 'Strange Visitor (From Another Planet)'. At one point Jimmy Olsen refers to Cat Grant as "the Cat woman":

Quote"Hey, CK, it's all over the newsroom. You and the Cat-woman. I didn't think anybody could come up with something as juicy as yesterday's raid, but you've done it."

The incident Jimmy is referring to here occurs earlier in the episode, when Clark visits Cat's apartment. When Cat rummages through her bedroom closet, she takes out a dress with a familiar dry-cleaning logo on the hanger. It reads "dress up with professional drycleaning" and bears an image of two penguins, one of which is wearing a top hat and tuxedo.

(https://i.postimg.cc/rwGpf3Wh/Cat.png)

Could this be a nod to DeVito's Penguin, or is it merely a coincidence? Well it's no coincidence, since this is the same dry-cleaning logo that was hanging in Selina Kyle's bedroom closet in Batman Returns.

(https://s33.postimg.cc/rebe3bswf/selina_t-shirt_1.jpg)

(https://s33.postimg.cc/dkn1ea80v/selina_t-shirt_2.png)

Evidently this particular dry-cleaning service is favoured by Cat-women. This also adds fuel to my theory that the nineties Batman movies and Superman TV show take place in the same universe. I'm going to go ahead and add this to the IMDb connections page.

Ok, this is weird. I was watching Scanner Cop (1994), aka Scanners 4, on Amazon Prime the other night, when what do I see hanging in the main character's locker?


Either this was a real dry cleaning service in LA at the time, or whichever graphic designer created the original label for Batman Returns made more that ended up being acquired by a prop house servicing other film and TV productions. 'Strange Visitor (From Another Planet)' and Scanner Cop were both shot in 1993, one year after Batman Returns came out. Has anyone spotted one of these penguin hangers in any other films or TV shows?

Someone made a meme out of TV characters reading the exact same newspaper for decades across multiple TV shows. What eventually came out is that a lot of newspaper props you see in movies and shows all say the same thing as a matter of course. It's like how most phone numbers begin with 555 in movies and shows. It's funny once you notice it but there's no deeper meaning to it.

Maybe the same thing is going on with the coat hangers?

Via HBO Max:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E75L0CvVgAIdKQz?format=jpg)

Watched a little bit of 'All Shook Up'. And while the overall picture quality is definitely improved, anything to do with green screen or other effects still looks pretty shaky. I assume there are technical (and budgetary) reasons for that. Still, it was pretty noticeable. Looked like someone upscaled the effects shots from DVD masters or something.

The special effects shots definitely have been upconverted while non-special effects scenes have been sourced from the original film elements. Still a fantastic way to rewatch the series! I'm looking forward to The Flash '90 getting this treatment which I'm sure will be available when the new film comes out.

I've been re-watching the New Krypton arc over the past few nights, and I was intrigued by the missing credit for the actor who voices Nor/Zod in season 3. In the first two episodes of season 4, when Nor finally appears on screen, he's portrayed by Legacy of Kain actor Simon Templeman (my second favourite live action version of Zod after Terence Stamp). But in the last two episodes of season 3, when we hear Nor's voice but don't actually see him, he's played by a different actor. This actor isn't credited on screen, nor does the IMDb list anyone as 'uncredited' in the role. However, I'm 95% sure it's Neil Dickson. Here's Dickson as Edward Roivas in the trailer for Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem (2002).


And here, at the 1:30 mark, is the voice of Lord Nor in L&C season 3.


I don't know what everyone else thinks, but I could swear that was the same voice. I'm going to try adding this to his IMDb page and see if the site moderators can verify it was him.

They sound pretty similar to me.

Dean and Teri reunited at a convention last month.

Looks like I never responded to this. So...

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Wed,  9 May  2018, 00:10I suppose it could be a composite assembled from different suits. The colour and texture of the bodysuit are closer to Cain's costume than Reeve's, as is the length of the cape. Cain was also the closest in height and build to Cavill, making his outfit the logical choice if they needed to recycle one.

For all I know, that could all be true.

I Googled it just now. Cavill is listed as 6'1". If Google is to be trusted, Cain is 6'.

I should say tho that I'm not sure I'm buying what Google is selling here. I've heard so many times that Cain is 5'10" that I don't even recall where it started. But I'm about 5'10" myself. And my memory of meeting Cain at a con is that we're about the same size. The photo he and I took together is... inconclusive as to which of us is taller. There's reason to question his posture as well as mine. But I can post it if anyone is desperate to see it.

Point is that I *THINK* Cain is closer to 5'10". And if that's true, then I'm at a loss to figure out how Cavill possibly could've worn a repurposed Cain suit for his screen test. I could be wrong. It's not like I know everything. But the few pics of Cavill wearing the screen test suit make it look a bit loose fitting on him. And there's just no way a Cain suit would be a loose fit on Cavill. I just can't see it.

As a side note, I met Welling, Schneider and The Baum from Smallville at that same con. In the pic I took with them, The Baum is clearly taller than I am and Google says he's 6' as well.

...

It's also possible that I'm way overthinking all this.

But since I'm here, I'm starting to wonder about Cavill's screen test. It rarely gets talked about and, afaik, zero footage of it has ever been released to the public. It makes me wonder if there's something going on with that which somebody wants kept under wraps. All we've ever gotten is a few pictures. Compare that to Bale, where we at least got a brief clip of him wearing Kilmer's old sonar suit.

h/t The Joker for posting this page from Wizard a while back.

The show's cancellation was confirmed here. And there's some interesting misinformation here. This misinformation has become very widespread. In fact, I even wonder if this is where the misinformation was born, frankly.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtW_IZUaEAAm8D7?format=jpg&name=large)

In short, the article claims that the wedding essentially killed the show. But like so many things, that's a drastic oversimplification.

In season 03, viewers widely expected the season to wrap up with Lois and Clark getting married. The Clone Saga From Hell (that's what the fans called it) seemed to be teeing up a proper wedding after the episode "I Now Pronounce You..." kicked off the saga in the first place.

Obviously, things went a different way.

And THAT is when ratings cratered for the show, never to recover. It wasn't the wedding that harmed the show. It was NOT having a wedding that did it.

But even there, the situation could've been salvaged. Lois & Clark had already proven that it was a survivor.

What ultimately tanked the show was Michael Eisner. Disney took the unprecedented (at the time) step of buying their very own network. Eisner made no secret of his desire to resurrect The Wonderful World Of Disney. Notoriously, the show aired at 8pm EST on Sunday nights on ABC.

Government name: Lois & Clark's original timeslot

After the merger, L&C was demoted to Saturday nights with pretty much zero fanfare or promotion from ABC. That timeslot was the kiss of death for a show like L&C.

But even Eisner's assassination attempt might not have been fatal. TNT had expressed interest in picking up the show. ABC might not have wanted it but there was hope. Very little is known about TNT's vision for the show. But one rumor has consistently been that TNT wanted a return to a more season 01 type of tone of a romantic comedy with a bit of sexiness. They believed this could've been a good addition to their Wednesday or Thursday night lineup of the time.

However, Cain and Hatcher themselves put paid to that idea. Cain wanted to do other things (particularly those that didn't require him to spend 16 hours per day on set) and Hatcher was pregnant. So, TNT settled for rerunning the show while production was put to bed once and for all.

There's good reason to question how much juice L&C really had in the tank after four seasons, two weddings and (apparently) a child on the way. But the show's lack of a proper series finale still stings to this day.

My point in all this is to say that it's an absurd oversimplification to blame the wedding in season 04 for L&C's decline when there were so many other forces ranging against the show.

All the same, thank you Joker for sharing those Wizard pages.

I've always wondered if the production of Superman Lives influenced the decision to cancel Lois & Clark. Or was that not a factor?

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon,  3 Jul  2023, 22:17I've always wondered if the production of Superman Lives influenced the decision to cancel Lois & Clark. Or was that not a factor?

I've never seen a source for the movie having anything to do with the show's cancellation.

But quite a few parties wanted to see the show end. So, it's possible that Tim Burton (or Jon Peters or any number of others) could be an unindicted coconspirator. The show was cancelled in 1997 and the original release date for the movie was supposed to be summer of 1997, iirc, so the timing is certainly convenient.

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 11 Sep  2023, 03:04

Quote from: Silver Nemesis on Mon,  3 Jul  2023, 22:17I've always wondered if the production of Superman Lives influenced the decision to cancel Lois & Clark. Or was that not a factor?

I've never seen a source for the movie having anything to do with the show's cancellation.

But quite a few parties wanted to see the show end. So, it's possible that Tim Burton (or Jon Peters or any number of others) could be an unindicted coconspirator. The show was cancelled in 1997 and the original release date for the movie was supposed to be summer of 1997, iirc, so the timing is certainly convenient.

I think it was mostly a ratings decision. Despite its strong showing in the first 3 seasons, the viewership tanked in the 4th season. It is believed that the marriage of Lois and Clark cooled things off, as the primary audience liked the romantic chase. After the two leads were wed, the ratings plummeted. The show finished in 104th place and despite already having a renewal that was 2 years old, they got pulled.

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 11 Sep  2023, 14:24I think it was mostly a ratings decision. Despite its strong showing in the first 3 seasons, the viewership tanked in the 4th season. It is believed that the marriage of Lois and Clark cooled things off, as the primary audience liked the romantic chase. After the two leads were wed, the ratings plummeted. The show finished in 104th place and despite already having a renewal that was 2 years old, they got pulled.

Take a look at post #41 in this thread. :D

Quote from: thecolorsblend on Mon, 11 Sep  2023, 18:10

Quote from: Gotham Knight on Mon, 11 Sep  2023, 14:24I think it was mostly a ratings decision. Despite its strong showing in the first 3 seasons, the viewership tanked in the 4th season. It is believed that the marriage of Lois and Clark cooled things off, as the primary audience liked the romantic chase. After the two leads were wed, the ratings plummeted. The show finished in 104th place and despite already having a renewal that was 2 years old, they got pulled.

Take a look at post #41 in this thread. :D

I don't think it is an absurd oversimplification. Lois and Clark's main draw/appeal to the masses was that it was a hip romance drama led by 2 charismatic twenty something actors whose characters are mired in will they/ wont they tension. Also it was show that declined in quality after the first season. Season 2-4 were bad.  I don't see a conspiracy.

I'd like to outline a fan theory concerning the unnamed paperboy in Batman Returns, played by Sean Whalen.


This hapless youth braved the winter cold to sell issues of the Gotham Globe to snarky apathetic butlers. The last time we see him is right before the Red Triangle Gang emerge from the giant present. He started out on the bottom rung of the newspaper business and almost got killed because of it.


My theory is that this paperboy is none other than Skip Wallace from the Lois & Clark episode 'Super Mann', also played by Sean Whalen. I think Skip was so scarred by his experiences in Gotham that he quit working for the Gotham Globe and went to work for The Daily Planet in Metropolis. Perry took pity on Skip because of his past trauma, and because Skip's mother was friends with his wife Alice, and gave him a job in the newsroom.

What Perry didn't realise was that Skip blamed Max Shreck for the violence he'd witnessed in Gotham. Skip was a poor young man trying to earn an honest living, while Max was a rich tycoon orchestrating chaos from his ivory tower. Skip was smiling when he watched Max hand out presents to the crowd, but he felt betrayed when the extent of Shreck's corruption later came to light. Max's fondness for Yiddish slang did not go unnoticed by Skip, who transferred his newfound hatred of Shreck onto Jewish people in general. From that point on Skip distrusted rich people and Jews, so when the opportunity came to join an anti-Semitic socialist uprising he leapt at the chance.


And what was his first act as a member of the NSBA? To take control of The Daily Planet, effectively rising to the top of the newspaper business and avenging himself for all those unsold copies of the Gotham Globe he was forced to peddle in the dead of winter. I'll bet he had a list of enemies written down somewhere, and at the top of that list would've been the snarky English butler who mocked his profession when he was first starting out.

And all because of what he went through that one dark Christmas in Gotham.

Works for me. I'll buy it. Considering the party's street origins, it doesn't take much imagination to see why Skip (and others like him) would've been courted heavily for membership.